SSC Minutes 17 April 2024 Final.pdf

Student-Staff Consultative Co mm
  ittee
(SSCC) Meeting, 4pm-5pm
507-2056 and Zoom

Wednesday, 17 April 2024

1.  WELCOME

2.
APOLOGIES:  Kathleen Mistry, Abhay Pandit,  Steven Harrison,  Bobby Tao  Year 3
Students

INTRODUCTIONS
Introductions of those in attendance:
Briar Peat – Deputy Head of Programme
Claudia Makgill – PPC, MD
Susy Lai – DMSA (Chair)
Nadia Rakhimova – PPC MPD
Jack Scott – Manager, MPD
Drew Williams – Student Support Engagement
Manager
Fiona Moir – Pastoral Support Chair
Noah APPLEBY – Māngai Māori, AUMSA
Lachlan MARKOVINA – President AUMSA
Samantha SAMANIEGO – Secretary, AUMSA
Neave BURGESS – Social Rep, AUMSA
Delaney O'HARA – Sponsorship officer
Samantha MENEZES -  year 5 Class Rep, AUMSA
Caroline Barrett – Phase 1 Director MPD
Kiara Theron – Year 5 Class Rep, AUMSA
Kira Bacal – Phase 2 Director, MPD
Sarah Casey  - Year 6 Class Rep
Nikita TUROA – year 4 Class Rep
Caitlin JARDIM - year 4 Class Rep
Callum CHALMERS -  VP Administration
Harrison BELL – Year 6 Class Rep
Daniel Lavin - VPE AUMSA
Andrew MacCormick – Head of Programme - MPD
Rachel Baker - Bay of Plenty site rep - MPD
Lily TUALAU – pacific Rep AUMSA
Susan Naing – International Rep – AUMSA
Blake Bain - Class of 2028 (2nd year) rep
Joseph Frith - Waikato site rep
Mike Puttick – Phase 3 Director
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1.  Year Group Matters

1.1  Year 2 –Reps: Absent
Caroline  Barret  reported  that  first exam is next week,  and students were
showing signs of stress.  There are issues with the larger class numbers which
MPD is trying to address.

F. Moir was happy to report that there was a good (in-person) turn out for a
lecture just before exams and students were engaged and professional.

Caroline reported there are IT issues which were  Uni wide so MPD  cannot
currently guarantee that lecture recordings can be saved.

1.2  Year 3 – No Reps (timetable clash)
Daniel Lavin reported on behalf of the year 3 students that things have been
largely smooth but there have been a few major  issues  relating to poor
communication from lecturers  that have been swiftly  dealt  with  and year 4
students passed on thanks to the team for dealing with the issues so quickly.
General sense that students have enjoyed the classes so far.

Some students fed back that non-recorded lectures with patients are outside of
business hours so students with dependants are finding it hard to attend.

Caroline Barrett advised that the academic day is officially 8am to 6pm so it is
difficult to avoid times after 5:00pm, but the information can be fed back to
schedulers to try and make sure that non-recorded sessions do happen earlier
to meet needs of students with dependants.

Cariline agreed there were issues with one module that will be fed back to the
module coordinator

1.3  Year 4 – Nikita TUROA and Caitlin JARDIM
No specific issues.

Kira Bacal had nothing to report either and reported the year was progressing
well.

1.4  Year 5 – Kiara Theron and Samantha MENEZES
Samatha Menezes reported  that while the year was going well the Year 5
students are feeling isolated – which AUMSA may need to address to bring year
5 students together

Financial burden of study is increasing, and many students are struggling. The
current 5th year is graduate heavy so many have other commitments.  Are there
any opportunities for more funding.

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Lachlan MARKOVINA  reported  NZMSA is looking particularly at students with
dependants.  They are in discussion with Te Whatu Ora to look at students being
included for staff day care.

S Menezes also reported in urban sites that runs are very busy runs.  This may
become more of an issue as enrolment increases.

Briar Peat acknowledged the constraint and MPD was looking at a piece of work
to examine capacity and advised that MPD is not committed to continuing doing
things as they are currently being done.  Students will be consulted later in the
year.

Kira Bacal –It would be great if AUMSA could do something address isolation.
She acknowledged this issue had been raised before and felt it would be a great
initiative. The high numbers at sites is known to be an issue which MPD is trying
to address.

MPD  have heard before that year 5 is financially difficult. This  is one of the
reasons why exemptions are maintained in the allocation policy. MPD  try to
target those who really need exemptions  and,  try where possible,  to ease
financial burdens.

F Moir reiterated that the stipend does not come from the medial programme,
so MPD does not have ability to alter it.

B Peat warned that there is some consensus not to focus to highly on the stipend
or it may be discontinued altogether by the Tertiary Education Council (TEC).

Kiara Theron reiterated that as being on the rural programme is costly.  She
reported that students on some GP practices have reported experiences in GPs
that are unsafe learning environments  (e.g.  GPs  asking  students to sign
prescriptions or treat patients alone).  K Theron had been trying to encourage
students to report issues.

She asked if the MPD can put out a statement about this issue but encourages
students in the meeting to pass this information along as well.

K Bacal agreed that a joint statement from AUMSA and MPD would be useful
and encouraged students to report to DMSA or student support if they don’t feel
comfortable going to the attachment coordinator, Phase Director or site. They
can also talk unofficially to the Phase Director so it can be managed
confidentially.  She asked all the students to report back to students that they
can feel empowered to always go back to teams and say no to these types of
requests and put it back on the programme.

Mike Puttick advised that if students want to report something confidentially –
if  there is  concrete evidence of issues MPD/Dept GP/PC  can do a general
message to the GP Practices.

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Briar Peat reminded students to complete end of run feedback and Dept GP/PC
take it very seriously.  Students will not be penalised for providing this kind of
feedback.  Dept GP/PC have ongoing reviews of practices and will stop using
practices that show poor patterns of behaviour.  If the student does not feel
comfortable going to MPD then you can go to Drew Williams – Student Support
Engagement Manager

F Moir thanked the students for bringing this issue to MPD’s attention.  She also
suggested making the MPD the “Bad Cop” when refusing to do things that were
not safe by saying that the MPD policy prevented them from doing this.

Andrew MacCormick reiterated that students can invoke MPD when refusing to
do tasks that are not safe.  There were long term implications for a student’s
professional career if a pharmacist picked up that a prescription has been signed
by an unregistered student.

ACTION:  Joint statement from AUMSA/MPD/DEPT  GP/PC  to students about
reporting unsafe incidents

1.5  Year 6 – Sarah Casey and Harrison BELL

H Bell report the year was going well for most people. He reiterated that year
6 students are also struggling with capacity. Clashes between year 5 students
who are scheduled and year 6 students who can choose their schedule

Mike Puttick was interested to know if there were specific site where there
were timetable clashes because there were some sites with known staffing
issues, and it would be useful for him to know if the situation required a
specific or more general solution.

Actions: Students to provide further details of capacity issues to Mike Puttick.

1.6  International Rep – Susan Naing

1. International students not getting first round job offers.  International
students feel ACE is not explained well enough to international students – as
presentations are targeted at domestic students.

Last year NZMSA surveyed students who were not employed in the first round
and advocated for international students who were later offered jobs. There is
concern it will not be sustainable long term and wondered if there was some
help MPD could provide in this area
2. Uncertain fees – students don’t know how much the cost will increase each
year.  International students would like some assurance that fees will not
increase too much.  A lot of students are experiencing financial difficulties and
wondering if there is any support
B Peat agreed that finance is difficult, but students do choose to come to New
Zealand as international students.
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The PGYI issue is advised on admission and the letter of offer outlines that a
job offer is not guaranteed. MPD does recognise that there is a benefit to NZ
trained Drs to remain in NZ and have advocated in the past.  Internationally it
is standard practice to give citizens and residents priority of employment over
international applicants.
The MPD has no control over fees.  The medial programme is long, and the
likelihood of fee increases over the length of study is quite high. She
suggested students could be strategic and utilise the subsidies applied by the
programme so international student may benefit from not being in Auckland
because it is cheaper to live outside Auckland and secondly because you are
entitled to programme subsidies.  Because there are no subsidies in year 6,
being out of Auckland may be better as it is cheaper to live. Students don’t
need to be in Auckland to get a job in Auckland. The quality of the applicants
supporting documents are key (references and academic performance). If
students want to work outside of Auckland it is a benefit to be at the site they
want to be employed at.
Andrew MacCormick: MPD does and has advocated for international students
to employed under the same conditions as local students but (like the stipend)
it is out of the MPD’s control.

2.
Student Matters
2.1  Protected afternoon once of week for clinical placements
D Lavin advised that new run students don’t know what they don’t know and on
top of that have to have do long days and online modules and assignments and
he asked for ½ a day a week for study.
B Peat:  advised that for Phase 2 there is a protected afternoon once a fortnight
and for phase 3 once a week which is outlined in the Guidebooks.
D Lavin asked it could be scheduled in.
B Peat advised that could not happen as every run is different.  There have been
concerns raised about attendance and the main issue is students leaving at
2:00pm.  If students want their protected time, they will need to be present at
other times.
Andrew McCormick suggested it is up to the individual student to negotiate as
every team is different. It is very difficult for MPD to communicate directly to
TWO staff  as  MPD  don’t employ consultants so there are  no channels of
communication.  MPD can ask the academic leads to promulgate this out to staff
so it is somewhat up to the student body to educate from the bottom and use
the guidebook as your evidence.
Briar Peat reminded students that registrars and House Offices have also been
students and understand the pressures of study. Students can communicate this
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kind of information to the registrars who pass on the information up the chain –
(near-peer communications)
2.2  SSCC Meeting Timing/Schedule

D Lavin asked if meetings be earlier and more frequent.
B Peat advised that quarterly meetings are the standard. SSCC meetings are
not generally scheduled until after the year 2 students start. However, there are
other places to raise concerns.  There are many meetings between students and
phase directors and other meeting that students attend,  or students can
approach Phase directors directly.
2.3  Hal lab video content
D Lavin reminded the group that real  life anatomy is hard to learn from a
textbook and HAL labs are great and extra some great content was made during
covid online.
Carolyne  Barret  advised that attendance at HAL labs is not good and if
attendance improves then more resources will made available.
2.4  Mini CEX and CSR guidelines

D Lavin suggested that CSR guidelines are quite broad and there is lot left up
to consultants. Can they be more specific.

Andrew MacCormick advised a new Director of Assessments is coming on
board and CSR and graduate outcomes are being reviewed and updated.
There will likely be engagement with students when the new person comes on
board. CSRs can’t be too specific because then students will be penalised
because they do not hit requirements. There needs to be some proactivity
from students about engaging with team and making sure the consultants are
around.  The CSR is a blunt tool but attempts are made to make them as good
as it can be.

Kiara Theron advised Psychiatry Mini CEX guidelines were very good and gave
very good examples and it may be useful for departments to develop similar
issues
2.5  Consultant recognition for teaching
Lack of time to address this issue – to be addressed offline
2.6  Pukawakawa lodge fees
Lack of time to address this issue – to be addressed offline
2.7  Script viewing for pre clinicals
  Lack of time to address this issue – to be addressed offline
2.8  Formal learning recordings
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Lack of time to address this issue – to be addressed offline
2.9  eCSRs
Lack of time to address this issue – to be addressed offline
2.10  End of run feedback
Lack of time to address this issue – to be addressed offline

3.
Other Business
3.1  Student input into the SCIRP (Student Critical Incident Response Plan)

Fiona Moir spoke about the SCIRP which is a university wide document. It was
identified that it did not address specific issues that relate to medical students.
It is not possible to alter the policy document, but an accompanying document
can be developed to address programme specific issues.   It has been
identified that that student involvement is important in these kinds of
documents– particularly around messaging to students. If there is a critical
event how would students like to have this information communicated

Action: Students to feed back to F Moir and A Williams their preferences

3.2  Where To Get Help’ flowcharts

There are currently where to get help flow charts available to students which
have multiple versions (site specific) which are impossible to update and don’t
seem to be used by students. Student support team have made a simplified
passport for help which is being devised for the whole faculty.  Students
Support are suggesting the 3 pathways for phase 1 are:
  •  Phase/Course Director (course or academic issues)
•  Student support (pastoral/financial issues)
•  Campus Care (health and wellbeing)

The channels for phase 2 and 3 would be similar.

Students agreed it would be good to channel students.

Andrew Williams advised that is was just being finalised and would then need
to be sent to marketing for final packaging.

3.3  20 Week Rule
K Bacal advised, particularly to the rising year 4 and 5 students - who will
be affected, that from 2025 and beyond that MPD will no longer be
defining a year as 20 weeks. The standard will be that students have to
spend a year in an urban centre (which includes Hamilton) and at least 1
year in a rural site (out of Auckland, which also includes Hamilton).

Meeting concluded at 5:36pm

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Next meeting is at 4:00pm on Tuesday, 10 June 2024, agenda items to Claudia Makgill at
[email address].

Action point from the meeting – 17 April 2024
Item
Action
Responsibility  Timeline
Year 3 – Non-
Caroline Barret will work with the  Caroline
2025?
recorded lectures
team to try and ensure non-
Barrett
after 5:00pm
recorded lectures are before 5pm
but the programme is constrained
by University policy
Year 5 – Students  Needs to be addressed by AUMSA  AUMSA
Ongoing
had reported
Social reps
feeling isolated
due to community
nature of the
placements
Year 5 – Unsafe
MPD, AUMSA and Dept GP to
MPD/AUMSA

requirement for
produce a joint statement to
students in GP
encourage students to report
placements.
incidents of this nature
Year 5 and 6
Students to report specifics to
Year 6

Capacity issues
Mike Puttick so he can direct
students/Mike
solutions where needed
Puttick
SCRIP
Students to feedback
F Moir and A
Ongoing
communication preferences in a
Williams
critical event to F Moir or A
Williams

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