Hello Charles

Thank you for your request received 28 August 2014.
Pursuant to the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987, you will receive a reply within twenty working days of Council receiving your request.
Meanwhile should you require any further assistance please feel free to contact our Customer Service Centre on 09 439 3123 or 0800 727 059.

Kind regards

Sue Downey
Customer Services

Kaipara District Council
Private Bag 1001
Dargaville 0340

Dargaville Office: 42 Hokianga Road, Dargaville 0310
Mangawhai Office: Unit 6, The Hub, 6 Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai 0505

P: 0800 727 059
E: [Kaipara District Council request email]
W: www.kaipara.govt.nz

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Barclay [mailto:[OIA #1972 email]]
Sent: Thursday, 28 August 2014 2:13 p.m.
To: Council
Subject: Official Information Act request - Re: Te Kopuru Wastewater / KDC Debt Planning / "Plain English" (Accounting for further $20M?)

Re: Te Kopuru Wastewater / KDC Debt Planning / "Plain English"
Accounting for another $20M ?Debt?
Official Information Act request to Kaipara District Council

Gentlemen, (for as Commissioners, so you are, exclusively.)

As a concerned Te Kopuru rate payer, trying to make sense of KDC's "Noddy-Land" accounting English, where the word "Remission" appears to mean a doctor gives anaesthetic, only upon condition that he can later administer gratuitous pain upon the "patient" ( i.e. The Ratepayer), and who wishes to try and understand how on earth "WWTP"s (sic - KDC) got us into this "shit" (sic - my apologies, FOR PLAIN SPEAKING; I mean $80M-sewage at Mangawhai), may I ask the following question regarding the councils "use of English" in accounting, and their debt intentions in this financial year?

KDC appear to have previously advised Central Government, i.e. ?Treasury, but not it's ratepayers, as far as I am aware, that it intends to spend in this financial year, $10-20 Million, i.e a further quarter of our total current indebtedness, upon a project described as "Bride Replacements". (Search Google, it returns ONE & ONLY ONE, unique to KDC, instance of the use of this phrase within the entire .govt.nz domain: it is obviously not a common technical or roading, council accounting or administrative term in current usage.). My 4 questions are:

Q1. What does KDC mean by "Bride Replacements", other than matrimonial exchanges, as Google suggests in associated adverts, and I cannot think in OUR present parlous state, we the Rate Payers consented and intend to spend $20 million on "bridal paths", and fund this from rate increases from next year?

Q2. Does KDC actually intend to spend this planned expenditure; if not, why did it advise Treasury, that it did so intend? And when did it advise Treasury & Audit-NZ that this plan had been cancelled or had been projected or advised in error?

Q3. Does KDC have any Policy or Staff Instruction, regarding the use of "Plain English" in accounting and other communication with rate payers. If so, where on the network can this be found? (<"Plain English" agreement, dated 21 December 2010, proposed by the Dargaville Cinema Charitable Trust> does not seem to be a policy as such?)

Q4. In your opinion & judgement, is a "consultation" with Rate Payers, as required by the Local Government Act 2002, legally achieved, if written material which form a part of that consultation, either fails the test of "Plain English", or is inaccessible to ordinarily skilled local people to be affected by the decision at hand, through being "buried" & unidentifiable as pertinent, in inordinate amounts of other information or defective & incomplete IT-Systems? What is reasonable to ask of your rate payers, or are we to be governed in ignorance?

Yours Sincerely,

Charles Barclay

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Please do not send progress updates as PDF files.

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hide quoted sections

Hello Charles

 

Thank you for your email requesting information under the Local Government
Official Information and Meetings Act 1987.

 

Unfortunately I am unable to understand exactly what information you are
asking for. Please can you clarify your request.

 

Regards Linda

 

[1]cid:image001.jpg@01CF20D5.3C936810

 

Kaipara District Council

Private Bag 1001

Dargaville 0340

 

Dargaville Office: 42 Hokianga Road, Dargaville 0310

Mangawhai Office: Unit 6, The Hub, 6 Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai 0505

 

P: 0800 727 059

E: [2][Kaipara District Council request email]

W: [3]www.kaipara.govt.nz

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Council

Sent: Friday, 29 August 2014 11:57 a.m.

To: '[OIA #1972 email]'

Subject: FW: Official Information Act request - Re: Te Kopuru Wastewater /
KDC Debt Planning / "Plain English" (Accounting for further $20M?)

 

Hello Charles

 

Thank you for your request received 28 August 2014.

Pursuant to the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act
1987, you will receive a reply within twenty working days of Council
receiving your request.

Meanwhile should you require any further assistance please feel free to
contact our Customer Service Centre on 09 439 3123 or 0800 727 059.

 

Kind regards

 

Sue Downey

Customer Services

 

 

 

Kaipara District Council

Private Bag 1001

Dargaville 0340

 

Dargaville Office: 42 Hokianga Road, Dargaville 0310 Mangawhai Office:
Unit 6, The Hub, 6 Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai 0505

 

P: 0800 727 059

E: [4][Kaipara District Council request email]

W: [5]www.kaipara.govt.nz

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Charles Barclay
[[6]mailto:[OIA #1972 email]]

Sent: Thursday, 28 August 2014 2:13 p.m.

To: Council

Subject: Official Information Act request - Re: Te Kopuru Wastewater / KDC
Debt Planning / "Plain English" (Accounting for further $20M?)

 

Re: Te Kopuru Wastewater / KDC Debt Planning / "Plain English"

       Accounting for another $20M ?Debt?

       Official Information Act request to Kaipara District Council

 

Gentlemen,  (for as Commissioners, so you are, exclusively.)

 

As a concerned Te Kopuru rate payer, trying to make sense of KDC's
"Noddy-Land" accounting English, where the word "Remission" appears to
mean a doctor gives anaesthetic, only upon condition that he can later
administer gratuitous pain upon the "patient" ( i.e. The Ratepayer), and
who wishes to try and understand how on earth "WWTP"s (sic - KDC) got us
into this "shit" (sic - my apologies, FOR PLAIN SPEAKING; I mean
$80M-sewage at Mangawhai), may I ask the following question regarding the
councils "use of English" in accounting, and their debt intentions in this
financial year?

 

KDC appear to have previously advised Central Government, i.e. ?Treasury,
but not it's ratepayers, as far as I am aware, that it intends to spend in
this financial year, $10-20 Million, i.e a further quarter of our total
current indebtedness, upon a project described as "Bride Replacements".
(Search Google, it returns ONE & ONLY ONE, unique to KDC, instance of the
use of this phrase within the entire .govt.nz domain:  it is obviously not
a common technical or roading, council accounting or administrative term
in current usage.). My 4 questions are:

 

Q1.   What does KDC mean by "Bride Replacements", other than matrimonial
exchanges, as Google suggests in associated adverts, and I cannot think in
OUR present parlous state, we the Rate Payers consented and intend to
spend $20 million on "bridal paths", and fund this from rate increases
from next year?

 

Q2.    Does KDC actually intend to spend this planned expenditure; if not,
why did it advise Treasury, that it did so intend?  And when did it advise
Treasury & Audit-NZ that this plan had been cancelled or had been
projected or advised in error?

 

Q3.    Does KDC have any Policy or Staff Instruction, regarding the use of
"Plain English" in accounting and other communication with rate payers. 
If so, where on the network can this be found?  (<"Plain English"
agreement, dated 21 December 2010, proposed by the Dargaville Cinema
Charitable Trust> does not seem to be a policy as such?)

 

Q4.    In your opinion & judgement, is a "consultation" with Rate Payers,
as required by the Local Government Act 2002, legally achieved, if written
material which form a part of that consultation, either fails the test of
"Plain English", or is inaccessible to ordinarily skilled local people to
be affected by the decision at hand, through being "buried" &
unidentifiable as pertinent, in inordinate amounts of other information or
defective & incomplete IT-Systems?  What is reasonable to ask of your rate
payers, or are we to be governed in ignorance?

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Charles Barclay

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is an OIA request done via the FYI website.

 

Please do not send progress updates as PDF files.

 

Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on
the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:

[7]https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers

 

If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web
manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

References

Visible links
2. mailto:[Kaipara District Council request email]
3. http://www.kaipara.govt.nz/
4. mailto:[Kaipara District Council request email]
5. http://www.kaipara.govt.nz/
6. mailto:[OIA #1972 email]
7. https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers

hide quoted sections

Hello Charles

 

Thank you for your email requesting information under the Local Government
Official Information and Meetings Act 1987.

 

Question 1

 

The document you are referring to is not a Kaipara District Council
document and we have no idea how central government got this information.
 While this is not our document, I assume the reference “Bride
Replacement” actually refers to Bridge Replacements.

 

Question 2

 

The correct information is outlined in our 2012/22 Long Term Plan which is
available on our website.  This Plan gives  projected budgets for all of
Council’s activities for the next ten years.  I have attached the relevant
page relating to bridge replacements.

 

A budget of $423,000 has been set aside for bridge replacements for
2014/15.  Please find attached the relevant page.  Budgeting for bridge
replacements allows us to allocate funding should it be required.  This
figure is also based on receiving subsidy from central government. 
Central government provides our Council financial assistance of between
59-63% of the value of work and we will only agree to do the work if we
receive this subsidy.

 

Question 3

 

Council does not have a Policy on the use of “plain English”.  However our
customer services staff are trained to not use jargon or Council phrases
when dealing with the public.

 

Question 4

 

We do recognise that there is technical or Council language in our
documentation that can make it difficult for everyday use. Our Annual and
Long Term Plans have to meet statutory requirements consistent with
Accounting Practice regulations, and pass vigorous auditing processes
before they can be released.  This can compromise the ability of Council
to use plain language.

 

Our District Plan is also a legal document and subject to legal
interpretations and challenges. It is also has to be able to stand up in
the Environment Court.  We do try to minimise the use of jargon however
finding the right balance is not easy.

 

I hope this answers your questions.  If not, or if you have further
questions, please contact me.

 

Regards Linda

 

[1]Kaipara_HOR_WhBG.jpg

Linda Osborne

Customer Relations Project Manager

Kaipara District Council

Private Bag 1001

Dargaville

P: 09 439 3123

E: [2][email address]

W:[3]www.kaipara.govt.nz

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Charles Barclay
[[4]mailto:[OIA #1972 email]]

Sent: Saturday, 6 September 2014 11:25 a.m.

To: Council

Subject: Re: FW: Official Information Act request - Re: Te Kopuru
Wastewater / KDC Debt Planning / "Plain English" (Accounting for further
$20M?)

 

Re:  Clarification request dated 01SEP14, received at fyi.org.nz 05SEP14 
Te Kopuru Wastewater / KDC Debt Planning / "Plain English"

Accounting for another $20M ?Debt?

Official Information Act request to Kaipara District Council

 

Gentlemen,

 

KDC appear to have previously advised Central Government, i.e.

Treasury, but not it's ratepayers, as far as I am aware, that it intends
to spend in this financial year, $10-20 Million,

 

See:   
[5]http://www.infrastructure.govt.nz/plan/2...

 

See spreadsheet: capital-intentions-plan-project-data.xls

See Sheet Tab Titled "Local Government"

 

Local Government Capital Intentions

.

Column Headings Read:

Sector  Sub Sector      Region Council            Project
Description       Cost Ban         Start Date Band           Finish Date
Band           Comment        

 

Data Line in question reads:

 Transport         Roading           Northland         Kaipara District
Council Bride Replacements     10M - 20M        2014            2020 +
            

 

My 4 questions are:   (Abbreviated; please read original request)

 

Q1. What does KDC mean by "Bride Replacements."

 

Q2. Does KDC actually intend to spend this planned expenditure.  Who made
the original projection to Treasury?  When was it cancelled?  Who was
advised of this?

 

Q3. Does KDC have any Policy or Staff Instruction, regarding the use of
"Plain English" in accounting and other communication with rate payers. If
so, where on the network can this be found?

 

Q4. In your opinion & judgement, is a "consultation" with Rate Payers, as
required by the Local Government Act 2002, legally achieved, if written
material which forms a part of that consultation, fails the test of "Plain
English", and is therefore incomprehensible to them.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Charles Barclay

 

-----Original Message-----

 

Hello Charles

 

 

 

Thank you for your email requesting information under the Local
Government  Official Information and Meetings Act 1987.

 

 

 

Unfortunately I am unable to understand exactly what information you are 
asking for. Please can you clarify your request.

 

 

 

Regards Linda

 

 

 

[1][6]cid:image001.jpg@01CF20D5.3C936810

 

 

 

Kaipara District Council

 

Private Bag 1001

 

Dargaville 0340

 

 

 

Dargaville Office: 42 Hokianga Road, Dargaville 0310

 

Mangawhai Office: Unit 6, The Hub, 6 Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai 0505

 

 

 

P: 0800 727 059

 

E: [2][Kaipara District Council request email]

 

W: [3][7]www.kaipara.govt.nz

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Please use this email address for all replies to this request:

[8][OIA #1972 email]

 

Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on
the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:

[9]https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers

 

If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web
manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

From: [10][email address] [[11]mailto:[email address]]
Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2014 4:32 p.m.
To: Linda Osborne
Subject: Message from C452 C45203788

 

 

References

Visible links
2. mailto:[email address]
3. http://www.kaipara.govt.nz/
4. mailto:[OIA #1972 email]
5. http://www.infrastructure.govt.nz/plan/2...
6. file:///tmp/cid:image001.jpg@01CF20D5.3C936810
7. http://www.kaipara.govt.nz/
8. mailto:[OIA #1972 email]
9. https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers
10. mailto:[email address]
11. mailto:[email address]

hide quoted sections

Hello Charles

 

Thank you for your further email.

 

I note your request that this further email received 13 October2014 be
included as a submission to the Draft Significance and Engagement Policy.
 However submissions closed for this 3 October 2014.  The Draft Policy was
adopted at the Council meeting this week.  The Significance and Engagement
Policy outlines what you can expect from the Council regarding community
engagement on issues of significance.  It also acts as a tool that clearly
guides the assessment of significance during decision making.  This Policy
does not relate to your concerns around plain English.

 

Regards Linda

 

Linda Osborne

Customer Relations Project Manager

 

[1]cid:image001.jpg@01CF20D5.3C936810

 

Kaipara District Council

Private Bag 1001

Dargaville 0340

 

Dargaville Office: 42 Hokianga Road, Dargaville 0310

Mangawhai Office: Unit 6, The Hub, 6 Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai 0505

 

P: 0800 727 059

E: [2][Kaipara District Council request email]

W: [3]www.kaipara.govt.nz

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Charles Barclay
[[4]mailto:[OIA #1972 email]]

Sent: Sunday, 12 October 2014 7:23 a.m.

To: Council

Subject: Re: FW: LGOIMA response

 

Re: Te Kopuru Wastewater / KDC Debt Planning / "Plain English"

Q4: Formal Notice: "Significance & Engagement" Consultation / Submission.

 

Gentlemen (as Commissioners)

 

Thank you for the reply to this specific question, which I presume was
made "for & on your behalf" by Ms Osborne.

 

Q4. In your opinion & judgement, is a "consultation" with Rate Payers, as
required by the Local Government Act 2002, legally achieved, if written
material which forms a part of that consultation, fails the test of "Plain
English", and is therefore incomprehensible to them.

 

Question 4 (KDC answer to date)

 

We do recognise that there is technical or Council language in our
documentation that can make it difficult for everyday use. Our Annual and
Long Term Plans have to meet statutory requirements consistent with
Accounting Practice regulations, and pass vigorous auditing processes
before they can be released.  This can compromise the ability of Council
to use plain language.

 

Our District Plan is also a legal document and subject to legal
interpretations and challenges. It is also has to be able to stand up in
the Environment Court.  We do try to minimise the use of jargon however
finding the right balance is not easy.

 

I regret that the answer fails to answer the substantive element, that of
<legally achieved>, in your opinion or that of your legal advisors.  (I am
grateful to  you or her for her congent acknowledgement of the issues
involved.)

 

You may wish to answer this here in reply, or you may wish to answer it
specifically, in the context of the "Draft Significance & Engagement
Policy" Consultation Process, where it may arguably be considered
pertinent.

 

Should you choose NOT to answer the question unambiguously herein, may I
formally request, that the question (outstanding and unanswered at the 03
OCT 14) be tabled as a submission in the above process, and may I reserve
the right to speak to the submission, in that wider context?

 

My Thanks & Regards,

Charles Barclay.

 

-----Original Message-----

 

Hello Charles

 

 

 

Thank you for your email requesting information under the Local
Government  Official Information and Meetings Act 1987.

 

 

 

Question 1

 

 

 

The document you are referring to is not a Kaipara District Council 
document and we have no idea how central government got this information.

 While this is not our document, I assume the reference “Bride 
Replacement” actually refers to Bridge Replacements.

 

 

 

Question 2

 

 

 

The correct information is outlined in our 2012/22 Long Term Plan which
is  available on our website.  This Plan gives  projected budgets for all
of  Council’s activities for the next ten years.  I have attached the
relevant  page relating to bridge replacements.

 

 

 

A budget of $423,000 has been set aside for bridge replacements for 
2014/15.  Please find attached the relevant page.  Budgeting for bridge 
replacements allows us to allocate funding should it be required.  This 
figure is also based on receiving subsidy from central government. 
Central government provides our Council financial assistance of between 
59-63% of the value of work and we will only agree to do the work if we 
receive this subsidy.

 

 

 

Question 3

 

 

 

Council does not have a Policy on the use of “plain English”.  However
our  customer services staff are trained to not use jargon or Council
phrases  when dealing with the public.

 

 

 

Question 4

 

 

 

We do recognise that there is technical or Council language in our 
documentation that can make it difficult for everyday use. Our Annual and 
Long Term Plans have to meet statutory requirements consistent with 
Accounting Practice regulations, and pass vigorous auditing processes 
before they can be released.  This can compromise the ability of Council 
to use plain language.

 

 

 

Our District Plan is also a legal document and subject to legal 
interpretations and challenges. It is also has to be able to stand up in 
the Environment Court.  We do try to minimise the use of jargon however 
finding the right balance is not easy.

 

 

 

I hope this answers your questions.  If not, or if you have further 
questions, please contact me.

 

 

 

Regards Linda

 

 

 

[1]Kaipara_HOR_WhBG.jpg

 

Linda Osborne

 

Customer Relations Project Manager

 

Kaipara District Council

 

Private Bag 1001

 

Dargaville

 

P: 09 439 3123

 

E: [2][email address]

 

W:[3][5]www.kaipara.govt.nz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Please use this email address for all replies to this request:

[6][OIA #1972 email]

 

Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on
the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:

[7]https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers

 

If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web
manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

References

Visible links
1. http://www.kaipara.govt.nz/
2. mailto:[Kaipara District Council request email]
3. http://www.kaipara.govt.nz/
4. mailto:[OIA #1972 email]
5. http://www.kaipara.govt.nz/
6. mailto:[OIA #1972 email]
7. https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers

hide quoted sections

Hello Charles

As previously mentioned our plans must meet legal and statutory requirements. We would hope that through a consultation process those that require further information in order to make a submission will contact us for clarification.

Regards Linda

Linda Osborne
Customer Relations Project Manager

Kaipara District Council
Private Bag 1001
Dargaville 0340

Dargaville Office: 42 Hokianga Road, Dargaville 0310 Mangawhai Office: Unit 6, The Hub, 6 Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai 0505

P: 0800 727 059
E: [Kaipara District Council request email]
W: www.kaipara.govt.nz

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Barclay [mailto:[OIA #1972 email]]
Sent: Sunday, 2 November 2014 11:56 a.m.
To: Council
Subject: Re: FW: FW: LGOIMA response

Dear Council,

Very well: Then may I ask the Commissioners for a definitive and unambiguous answer to my original Q4, specifically the "legally achieved" test? The cogent discussion of the difficulty & issues relating to ratepayer 'consultation' above may excuse 'a failed consultation process', but does NOT answer the question of whether such an attempt is legally sufficient to the stipulation of the acts?

As ratepayers ("Owners / Shareholders" not "Customers")... If we are unaware of change, are unable to access information, or what we are told is incomprehensible to us, THEN we are doomed to be governed in IGNORANCE: A profoundly undemocratic state of affairs.

Yours sincerely,

Charles Barclay

-----Original Message-----

Hello Charles

 

Thank you for your further email.

 

I note your request that this further email received 13 October2014 be included as a submission to the Draft Significance and Engagement Policy.
 However submissions closed for this 3 October 2014.  The Draft Policy was adopted at the Council meeting this week.  The Significance and Engagement Policy outlines what you can expect from the Council regarding community engagement on issues of significance.  It also acts as a tool that clearly guides the assessment of significance during decision making.  This Policy does not relate to your concerns around plain English.

 

Regards Linda

 

Linda Osborne

Customer Relations Project Manager

 

[1]cid:image001.jpg@01CF20D5.3C936810

 

Kaipara District Council

Private Bag 1001

Dargaville 0340

 

Dargaville Office: 42 Hokianga Road, Dargaville 0310

Mangawhai Office: Unit 6, The Hub, 6 Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai 0505

 

P: 0800 727 059

E: [2][Kaipara District Council request email]

W: [3]www.kaipara.govt.nz

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[OIA #1972 email]

Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:
https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers

If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

hide quoted sections