Cattle stop over road Sect.344 LGA 1974
James Russell made this Official Information request to Waitaki District Council
The request was partially successful.
From: James Russell
Dear Waitaki District Council,
If an application is made by a private property owner, to erect a cattle stop over a legal road, and the application is considered by the Waitaki District Council under the Local Government Act 1974, Sect. 344, and subsequently, a permit is granted under this section,
1. Would it not necessarily follow that the cattle stop be consistent with the Act, in that it be over a road “...constructed through private lands..” as per the Act ? and
2. Would it not also follow, as per the Act, that it “...be erected on the outer boundary...” of the applicant’s property ? and
3. Would it not also follow, that the ‘permit' as it must be in writing, state, if it were to reference construction of a fence, also conclude that any fence permitted under this section of the Act, be either within the private property, or on the boundary of that property ?
Yours faithfully,
James Russell
From: noreply@waitaki.govt.nz
Waitaki District Council
Please do not reply to this email
Thank you for emailing Waitaki District Council.
Our Customer Contact Team checks emails regularly during business hours (8.30am – 5pm Monday to Friday). We ensure requests are forwarded to the appropriate Council Officer or contractor for action.
If your enquiry is urgent please call our Customer Contact Team on 03 433 0300.
Regards
Customer Contact Team
Waitaki District Council
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
From: Lynley Scott
Waitaki District Council
Thank you for your email Mr Russell.
Your email contains several interpretations of the act, please could you provide exactly what questions you would like answered.
Kind Regards
Lynley Scott
Administration Officer - Records and Purchasing
Phone 03 433 0300 Email [email address]
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
-----Original Message-----
From: James Russell [mailto:[OIA #2230 email]]
Sent: Sunday, 30 November 2014 6:14 p.m.
To: Service
Subject: Official Information Act request - Cattle stop over road Sect.344 LGA 1974
Dear Waitaki District Council,
If an application is made by a private property owner, to erect a cattle stop over a legal road, and the application is considered by the Waitaki District Council under the Local Government Act 1974, Sect. 344, and subsequently, a permit is granted under this section, 1. Would it not necessarily follow that the cattle stop be consistent with the Act, in that it be over a road “...constructed through private lands..” as per the Act ? and 2. Would it not also follow, as per the Act, that it “...be erected on the outer boundary...” of the applicant’s property ? and 3. Would it not also follow, that the ‘permit' as it must be in writing, state, if it were to reference construction of a fence, also conclude that any fence permitted under this section of the Act, be either within the private property, or on the boundary of that property ?
Yours faithfully,
James Russell
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an OIA request done via the FYI website.
Please do not send progress updates as PDF files.
Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:
https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers
If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
hide quoted sections
From: James Russell
Dear Lynley Scott,
I have not as you advise, provided several 'interpretations' of the Act. (Sect 344)
I have quoted the Act. References within quotation marks in my request are as pasted directly from the Act.
And as I have numbered my questions 1. & 2. & 3, then these are "exactly what questions..." I "...would like answered."
With reference to Q 3. (quote Sect 344 1.)"The council may, in writing, permit..."
So I imagine that if there were a cattle stop permit, it would be in writing as required, and if there were a fence involved, it would presumably be mentioned in the permit. See Section 344, 11..
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
From: Lynley Scott
Waitaki District Council
Application for Cattle Stop on Public Road.pdf
121K
Download
View as HTML
Roading Bylaw 2013.pdf
1.7M
Download
View as HTML
Thank you Mr Russell
Please see the attached application for Cattle Stops which also refers to our roading bylaw; both are available via our website.
Lynley Scott
Administration Officer - Records and Purchasing
Phone 03 433 0300 Email [email address]
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
-----Original Message-----
From: James Russell [mailto:[OIA #2230 email]]
Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 12:09 p.m.
To: Lynley Scott
Subject: Re: Official Information Act request - Cattle stop over road Sect.344 LGA 1974
Dear Lynley Scott,
I have not as you advise, provided several 'interpretations' of the Act. (Sect 344) I have quoted the Act. References within quotation marks in my request are as pasted directly from the Act.
And as I have numbered my questions 1. & 2. & 3, then these are "exactly what questions..." I "...would like answered."
With reference to Q 3. (quote Sect 344 1.)"The council may, in writing, permit..."
So I imagine that if there were a cattle stop permit, it would be in writing as required, and if there were a fence involved, it would presumably be mentioned in the permit. See Section 344, 11..
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
-----Original Message-----
Thank you for your email Mr Russell.
Your email contains several interpretations of the act, please could you provide exactly what questions you would like answered.
Kind Regards
Lynley Scott
Administration Officer - Records and Purchasing
Phone 03 433 0300 Email [email address]
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[OIA #2230 email]
Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:
https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers
If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
hide quoted sections
From: James Russell
Dear Lynley Scott,
The two PDF documents do not answer any of my three questions.
You have supplied a cattle stop application. This document has questions, and I seek answers, not questions.
The other is the complete edition of bylaws. My questions relate only to Section 344 of the Local Government Act 1974, and not bylaws.I will keep them, but they are unhelpful today.
I have FYI, repeated my questions. I struggle to put them any more plainly than below.
If in doubt, see SECT 344 of the Local Government Act 1974 [GOOGLE will take you right there, and the answers are at the top of the page]
[Question 1] A permit is granted in writing [Sect 344 (1.) would not the cattle stop necessarily be over a road “...constructed through private lands..” ? [quote 344 (1.) (b)]
YES or NO ?
[Question 2] Would it not also follow, as per the Act, that it [the cattle stop] “...be erected on the outer boundary...” of the applicant’s property ? [quoted the Act] [Sect. 344 (1.) (b)]
YES or NO
[Question 3] If an application is made and a permit granted it would be in writing would it not ?
SEE SECT 344 (1) Gates and cattle stops across roads
YES or NO
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
From: Lynley Scott
Waitaki District Council
Good afternoon
Here are the answers you require:
Q1 Yes
Q2 No
Q3 Yes
Kind regards
Lynley Scott
Administration Officer - Records and Purchasing
Phone 03 433 0300 Email [email address]
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
-----Original Message-----
From: James Russell [mailto:[OIA #2230 email]]
Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 5:02 p.m.
To: Lynley Scott
Subject: RE: Official Information Act request - Cattle stop over road Sect.344 LGA 1974
Dear Lynley Scott,
The two PDF documents do not answer any of my three questions.
You have supplied a cattle stop application. This document has questions, and I seek answers, not questions.
The other is the complete edition of bylaws. My questions relate only to Section 344 of the Local Government Act 1974, and not bylaws.I will keep them, but they are unhelpful today.
I have FYI, repeated my questions. I struggle to put them any more plainly than below.
If in doubt, see SECT 344 of the Local Government Act 1974 [GOOGLE will take you right there, and the answers are at the top of the page]
[Question 1] A permit is granted in writing [Sect 344 (1.) would not the cattle stop necessarily be over a road “...constructed through private lands..” ? [quote 344 (1.) (b)]
YES or NO ?
[Question 2] Would it not also follow, as per the Act, that it [the cattle stop] “...be erected on the outer boundary...” of the applicant’s property ? [quoted the Act] [Sect. 344 (1.) (b)]
YES or NO
[Question 3] If an application is made and a permit granted it would be in writing would it not ?
SEE SECT 344 (1) Gates and cattle stops across roads
YES or NO
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
-----Original Message-----
Thank you Mr Russell
Please see the attached application for Cattle Stops which also refers to our roading bylaw; both are available via our website.
Lynley Scott
Administration Officer - Records and Purchasing
Phone 03 433 0300 Email [email address]
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[OIA #2230 email]
Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:
https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers
If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
hide quoted sections
From: James Russell
Dear Lynley Scott,
Thank you Lynley,
I agree with your answers to 1 & 3, however, with regard to question 2, in which you respond NO, it seems that the Act, with regard to this is clear, and I have for reference, cut and pasted as follows; "...the owner or occupier requests that a gate or a cattle stop or both be erected on the outer boundary..."
And my question, copied below
Would it not also follow, as per the Act, that it [the cattle stop] “...be erected on the outer boundary...” of the applicant’s property ? [quoted the Act] [Sect. 344 (1.) (b)]
Your NO answer is inconsistent with my interpretation of Sect. 344 (1.) (b).
Please elaborate on your reckoning ? It seems very clear to me.
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
From: Lynley Scott
Waitaki District Council
Good Morning
Clarification to Q2: The gate would be across the road whether it be on the road reserve or through private lands.
Lynley Scott
Administration Officer - Records and Purchasing
Phone 03 433 0300 Email [email address]
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
-----Original Message-----
From: James Russell [mailto:[OIA #2230 email]]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2014 3:33 p.m.
To: Lynley Scott
Subject: RE: Official Information Act request - Cattle stop over road Sect.344 LGA 1974
Dear Lynley Scott,
Thank you Lynley,
I agree with your answers to 1 & 3, however, with regard to question 2, in which you respond NO, it seems that the Act, with regard to this is clear, and I have for reference, cut and pasted as follows; "...the owner or occupier requests that a gate or a cattle stop or both be erected on the outer boundary..."
And my question, copied below
Would it not also follow, as per the Act, that it [the cattle stop] “...be erected on the outer boundary...” of the applicant’s property ? [quoted the Act] [Sect. 344 (1.) (b)]
Your NO answer is inconsistent with my interpretation of Sect. 344 (1.) (b).
Please elaborate on your reckoning ? It seems very clear to me.
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
-----Original Message-----
Good afternoon
Here are the answers you require:
Q1 Yes
Q2 No
Q3 Yes
Kind regards
Lynley Scott
Administration Officer - Records and Purchasing
Phone 03 433 0300 Email [email address]
Web www.waitaki.govt.nz Office 20 Thames Street, Private Bag 50058, Oamaru 9444
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please use this email address for all replies to this request:
[OIA #2230 email]
Disclaimer: This message and any reply that you make will be published on the internet. Our privacy and copyright policies:
https://fyi.org.nz/help/officers
If you find this service useful as an OIA officer, please ask your web manager to link to us from your organisation's OIA page.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
hide quoted sections
From: James Russell
Dear Lynley Scott,
You have in your reply provided two options for the location of the cattle stop; 1. across a road on road reserve, or 2. across a road through private lands.
The Act does not provide either of the two options in support of your claim; it provides one single option in Section 344, that applications for a cattle stop under this Act be over a road. “... erected on the outer boundary...” The key point in defining its location is the outer boundary.
Clearly, it will be over a road, but Section 344 does not accommodate an application to be made for a cattlestop to be erected on road reserve alone, and applications made under this Act can only be for a cattle stop on the boundary of private land.
To reiterate and hopefully clarify my questions; as Sect.344 of the Act is clear that applications for cattle stops and gates be permitted in writing, there can not be a ‘permitted’ cattle stop without the written permit (we both agree), and that applications to erect a cattle stop or gate over a road; we mean a ‘road’ as defined in the Act and WDC bylaws, and that the road is constructed through private lands (seems we both agree).
My unresolved question 2; Do applications made under this Act; dictate that the cattle stop or gate be on a boundary of the applicant’s land, and therefore not remote from the applicant’s land. Such as areas of road reserve where no part of a proposed erection of a cattle stop or gate has any physical connection to the applicant’s land?
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
From: James Russell
Dear Lynley Scott,
Under the Act, in the context of applications such as this; is the word 'boundary' critical in dictating the position of the cattle stop?
Yours sincerely,
James Russell
Things to do with this request
- Add an annotation (to help the requester or others)
- Download a zip file of all correspondence
Offensive? Unsuitable?
Requests for personal information and vexatious requests are not considered valid requests for Official Information (read more).
If you believe this request is not suitable, you can report it for attention by the site administrators
Report this request
Alex Harris left an annotation ()
LGOIMA only applies to information held by a local authority. It is not a generalised Q&A mechanism.
If you're concerned about the legality of a particular cattle stop, you would do better to ask for all documents relating to it. That would enable you to compare the permit (if any) to the bylaw.
Link to this